From PHD Candidate to Mom: Laura Longo’s Lessons on Simplifying Success

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“You can start down one path, and it might take you into another. All of those things are perfectly acceptable. There’s nothing wrong with your decision making. You’re just being exposed to different experiences”

Laura Longo

[EP004] – In this episode of Choice Not Chance: Simplifying Success,I sat down with my sister, Laura Longo. We discuss Laura’s remarkable 25-year career in education, how she manages various responsibilities from kindergarten through 12th-grade science programs, and her pursuit of a Ph.D. Despite her demanding career and raising three children, Laura shares her secret to balancing it all, highlighting the importance of intentionality, structured processes, and lifelong learning. Our engaging conversation covers topics like work-life balance, strategies for career advancement, and the value of being a strong, confident woman in leadership roles.

Highlights from this episode:

[02:28] Balancing Career and Family

[05:18] Journey into Science Education

[12:03] Navigating Challenges as a Female Leader

[23:54] Building a Supportive Community

[29:39] Divine Interventions and Human Connections

[34:32] Investing in Yourself

[36:29] Navigating Career Transitions

[42:54[ Balancing Career and Personal Life

Connect with Laura Longo:

Books or Resources Mentioned:

A little bit about Laura Longo:

Laura Longo is an accomplished educator with 25 years of experience in the field of science education. She holds a Bachelor’s degree in Mathematical Physics and a Master’s degree in Secondary Education of Physics, and she is certified in Educational Leadership. Laura is currently working on her dissertation for a PhD in Science Education at Stony Brook University.

Transcript:

Marie Chindamo: Welcome to Choice Not Chance. Simplifying success. I’m your host Marie Chindamo. In each episode, we’ll explore how to simplify life’s toughest decisions, helping you cut through the noise and focus on what truly matters boldly it’s simply directing your success. It’s time to stop leaving your future to chance and start making choices to shape your destiny.

Hello and welcome to another episode of choice, not chance, simplifying success. I’m your host, Marie Chindamo. In this episode, we’re going to have a discussion with someone who has a fascinating career for over 20 years, close to 25 years, actually. in education. And as successful as she is, she is still rising. She’s not even close to the top.

We’re chatting about not just setting goals, but also how to pivot as you lean into crafting your future and the importance and return on investing in yourself. I will also cover how leadership skills are developed in unconventional ways.

This guest is not only an inspiration, she happens to be my sister, Laura Longo, and I say that very proudly. You’ll get the scoop on her fascinating career as Laura opens up about zigzagging through her journey. We’ll have a chance to see how all of her experiences and choices have really shaped how she approaches science, education, and leadership.

Let’s jump right in. Welcome, Laura.

Laura Longo: Thanks for having me.

Marie Chindamo: You are so welcome. So let me tell my audience a little bit about Laura Longo. Laura has been an innovator in education for 25 years. I can’t believe you’re that old, Laura.

Laura Longo: I started young. I’m like a prodigy.

Marie Chindamo: She started her career as a high school physics teacher. She worked as a high school physics teacher for 17 years in a high needs district. And then she transitioned into administration. So for the past, what, eight years or so, you’ve been in administration as the director of science.

For 3 different districts covering K through 12. So the needs from K kindergarten through actual graduation. Yep. Currently, she’s at COMAC as the director of science, and not only is she responsible for science included in science is the aviary and farm agricultural education programs at the intermediate grade levels.

Laura Longo: Yes.

Marie Chindamo: At the intermediate grade levels. So lots going on there. I’m interested in hearing all about that and how you’re managing 12 different levels of science education. Then if that’s not enough. Laura, who’s 98 years old because she’s done all these wonderful things. She is also, so she has a BA, a bachelor’s degree in mathematical physics.

Two master’s degrees, one in secondary education of physics, one in educational leadership, and she is currently completing her Ph. D. in science education at Stony Brook University. One of the few, if not only, to complete that Ph. D. in what, three years is it?

Laura Longo: It’ll, if I hit my targets, it’ll be just under three years.

Yes. Three years.

Marie Chindamo: Fantastic. And that’s anticipated what May, right? Is it May? Graduation

Laura Longo: will be May. I anticipated to defend my dissertation in early April. Wow. Okay.

Marie Chindamo: And if that’s not enough, Laura is also the mother of three young children ages 9, 10 and 13 as of the date of this actual interview. So where are the kids?

Like who’s taking care of them? What are we doing?

Laura Longo: It’s right now they’re in school. So I’m grateful for that opportunity. My youngest actually just went to the doctor this morning. He has strep throat, so he’s home with his father. So it’s. The regular schedule, I’m in education, which lines up nicely with their school schedule.

So that’s helpful. You have a lot of their time that they have off. I’m usually off or can take off. But in the evening, that’s where it gets a little dicey. Everybody’s in their own sport or then there’s religious instruction. There’s just, we’re in the thick of it now. So it’s a lot of balancing of the calendar.

That’s what happens and

Marie Chindamo: that’s going to continue for a while. Yes. Yeah. They’re still young. So another 9 years.

Laura Longo: Maybe until my oldest starts driving, then you could help me with the Uber situation.

Marie Chindamo: Do you put them in an Uber or no? You don’t put the oh,

Laura Longo: no, I’m saying I can hire him as like my Uber driver.

Marie Chindamo: Gotcha. Okay. Listen, I was always 1, 2, and I, I was always wanting to think about there should be a child Uber program. That definitely should be, like something that’s a trustworthy, like vetted, people that are responsible. I think that’s a business idea. We should put that should look

Laura Longo: into that.

I feel like the liability is high, though, and there’ll be quite a large insurance to take out on that. But

Marie Chindamo: yeah, you have to worry about the children’s behavior. Yeah, there’s a lot of variables there, but I think we can figure it out. Someone with a Ph. D. in probably help us work through that problem.

Laura Longo: Okay.

Marie Chindamo: Yes, there’s so much to talk about what. What comes to mind for me is the accomplishing all of these things and still and raising a family and keeping an impeccable household. So let’s just put it out there. Laura is my sister, right? And she is one of the twins that I referred to in episode 1.

So we’ve known each other our whole lives. At least I’ve known my whole life. No, she’s known me her whole life. Yes, and I’ve known her for I won’t say how many years. Okay but anyhow, so Knowing how you manage your life since a child Knowing how you run your household. It’s just incredibly impressive to see all these accomplishments And walk into your home and see not one thing out of place, everything is tidy.

It’s just like on most days. Yeah. On most days. Yeah. With a lot of busyness going on. So we want to get into that too. What systems do you have in place? How you keep your mind clear. But I want to take a step back to why you entered into education. What’s what what inspired you to pursue a career?

Sure, science, specifically science education.

Laura Longo: I was always fond of science, the subject since I was very young, I always liked to see how things worked and just really look at the natural sciences around us. It was inquisitive. I guess you would say when I went into my bachelor’s degree, I initially thought I was going to go into medicine and it’s just funny how and I try to tell this to students in my 25 years of education, you don’t have all the answers now.

So you can start down one path and it might take you into another. And all of those things are perfectly acceptable. There’s nothing wrong with you. There’s nothing wrong with your decision making. You’re just being exposed to different experiences. So while I was in the biology program for pre med track at St.

John’s University, I became very good friends with Another student whose father was an electrical engineer, and once I started speaking with him about what’s an engineering back then, it wasn’t, something that was talked about a lot, or what specific engineering, was out there.

So he. He did a lot of sound checking for TV shows. I went to work with him and I was in awe of looking at changing my major and going into electrical engineering, which I did. I was in a five year program with Manhattan College and St. John’s University, where you get a dual degree. You get one in physics and then you get one in engineering.

So after I completed the physics component, I moved into engineering school. A year into that two year program, I was like, I don’t think I could see myself being in an office all day, solving these problems as an electrical engineer. It was just, I don’t know, too routine. I spoke to the chair of the physics department who I had become close with at St.

John’s University, and he was a mentor to me, and he said, we really need people like you to go into education, into high school education for physics, because there’s not a lot of There’s not a lot of people out there who have the aptitude to understand the level of physics that you need, but also are, have the personality to deal with children and high school people so that started my exploration into okay, what does that entail.

And I just finished that final year doing my education credits and graduated with a degree in mathematical physics and a minor in secondary education. I was hired right away. So I started working young. And I stayed in that school for the, the duration of my teaching career was very challenging, but it also was very rewarding at the same time.

And I was there for 17 years until I decided to leap over into the administrative world.

Marie Chindamo: Wow. And so now you’re there. Now I’m here. Now You’re there. Yeah. What a

Laura Longo: different world it is. . Is

Marie Chindamo: it? Okay. Yeah. Talk a little bit about what choices you made. So you made a choice to move out of actual teaching directly, and into a, at a broader role, but yet more responsibility in as a director of science. Correct. Why did you make that choice? What was the impetus behind that choice, and what did you want to accomplish?

Laura Longo: I definitely never imagined while I was teaching. I would ever want to be an administrator where I had worked.

I did not have the best administrative team. They were not very supportive. So I just had a lot of negativity that surrounded that role. But then as I came into my career and became more confident as a teacher, I realized that we need better administrators. So I guess I took one for the team. I wanted to advance my career.

I was already at the top credits as a teacher. And, I’m a lifelong learner. So I figured what else could I do so that would complement my career. So I went back to school. Became, got my certification educational leadership and then the traditional path for administrators is. If you’re a teacher for a little bit of time, and you might become an assistant principal and maybe a principal or a chairperson and then a director, I leaped right from the classroom to a K 12, a district leadership role.

There was, and my first position was in a very large school district. So it’s two high schools, three middle schools, and I don’t know what was it, eight elementary schools. What’s

Marie Chindamo: the population of the student population? Do you remember? Approximately.

Laura Longo: That’s a great question. I’m like drawing a blank.

So I’m trying to think of the graduating class. There’s about to

Marie Chindamo: get back to us.

Laura Longo: There’s about 800 students per grade level. So if you think about K through 12, yeah, times that by 13, a lot of responsibility. There’s

Marie Chindamo: a lot of different types of, just mindsets and right. A

Laura Longo: lot of personalities to deal with.

One of my mentors as a leader he made the reference that administration is like herding cats. You get over here doing what you want and then the other ones are straying and you grab them and then they’re straying. So it’s trying to get everybody on the same page. But I think what really helped me in my role right away was the years I put in as a teacher.

I worked in a tough area. I had to be very resourceful and I knew the grind and I knew it. I didn’t jump into administration in my 5th year of teaching. I did 17 years of what I call a hard time and, and I was able to see, what the teachers need firsthand and support them.

So I definitely define myself as. a facilitator. I definitely define myself as a servant leader. I, I see what they need and I try to reassure my teachers specifically that if the children are the most important things to me, but in order for that to happen, the teachers are the most important people to me because if they’re not right, if they’re not equipped with the tools that they need or the emotional support that they need, they can’t perform for our students.

Marie Chindamo: And it’s very similar in business to, as a leader, you always want to take care of your own, it’s like you want to take care of your leaders so they can take care of their employees. But then you also want to make sure everybody under your roof is taken care of so that our customer is cared for.

Exactly. It’s the same philosophy.

Laura Longo: But then think about that. So you’re caring for all these people and worried about all these children, and then you’re caring for your own children and your own household. So who do you care for last? Yeah you yourself personally.

Marie Chindamo: Exactly. Yeah, we, I want to talk a little bit about that too.

So this might require 2 episodes. I’m sorry. I do want to get into just in the onset being a female. In a high level position, right? So I know that in, I don’t want to call the school district out, but one of the school districts, the first one you were directed was a little more challenging because you were basically one of the few females in a high level position.

Tell us a little bit about that.

Laura Longo: Yeah, 1 of the few females, but also 1 of the few strong, confident females. So that’s what really separates me from the pack. I don’t really like to assert myself until I know I’m very knowledgeable in whatever I’m asserting myself in. So that could come off as intimidating to certain people.

I, I’m hoping that system is changing in that particular school district. It might take a while, but it was very misogynistic. And, it reminded me of the, that TV show. What was it? Is it mad men when they’re mad

Marie Chindamo: men?

Laura Longo: Yeah. Yeah, exactly. Women should have their place.

And it wasn’t there.

Marie Chindamo: And you were there how many years in that?

Laura Longo: I was there for four years.

Marie Chindamo: So you endured that for your the first of all, when you take on a role in any new setting, you got to learn all the dynamics and the politics, right? So you’re spending a little bit of time just figuring out what who the players are, what’s happening, right?

Exactly. And then now you’re navigating that,

Laura Longo: right? And that was the largest school district I have, been a leader in. So far it was large and a lot of moving pieces. There’s that whole every point you just made and then you have the details of your position. What is New York state require, what are the changes that are happening and how do you get the people to move in that direction?

So you have all these things that are balancing, and then my children were very young. My youngest was only 2 years old. That’s a whole other thing. Then COVID happened. Yeah. Oh my God. So there were a lot of different things that were happening at one time. We were homeschooling three, a few by when COVID happened, I think my youngest was in kindergarten or pre K.

So three kids, we were homeschooling and we were both administrators. So it was a lot. Sometimes I look back. I’m like, how did we survive?

Marie Chindamo: Let’s talk about that. So how’d you had to simplify now? Simple doesn’t mean easy, right? I want to be clear. And I say this episode simple does not mean easy, but to make things happen, right?

You have to have processes in place. Absolutely structure. So how, what was some of the things you did to simplify so, so that you can be successful and whatever it was you were doing that week that month, whether it was professional or personal. Give us.

Laura Longo: I think that from. I go back to keep it everything very simple.

Like, when it happened in particular, I went to taking chart paper and sticking it on my wall. Every day of the week and listing out who has what responsibilities so that we can divide and conquer, including our own meetings and how to run our own school districts that we were employed by. It’s for me is trying.

I’m very intentional when I’m starting my day. I look on the weekend. I try to turn off to a degree, but there is some glazing of the calendar of the week ahead of. Just presetting, what has to happen the night before. I’m always looking what meetings are going to occur. Of course, I’m preparing from the week before, but

And that’s the only way that you can manage all of these things and do it. I have a school schedule. I have my children’s 3 different schedules for them. I have my work schedule. And, there’s a lot of different things that are happening at one time. So it has to be very, a lot of decisions have to be made, but simplifying it to me is the easiest thing.

I think of it. My house as a nucleus. I’m going to go into a little scientific. Please do please.

Laura Longo: So if you think of an atom, if you think about the basic parts, you have the nucleus, the dense center, and then we have shells that are around it that, electrons exist. So the further you go out, the further it is away from your nucleus.

I think of my home and my family in it as my nucleus. As we add things, whether it be your profession, right? That’s your next closest shell. Your student, your children’s activities you’re including their religious, education hobbies, even including working out for myself, or I like to play the drums, whatever it is, I’m moving outward.

And when I find something is. Having a lot of entropy or energy or there’s some stimuli that’s happening that needs to be Brought down or calm down. I start working my way in from the outside So it might be like it’s something an issue is happening with one of my children Okay, I need to stop playing drums and maybe cut down Unfortunately, my exercising to a few days a week instead of five days a week, right?

And you’re bringing it closer to home. Once that nucleus becomes more stable and my shells can move outward again. So

It’s, that’s just the way I visualize it. Shut it down from the outside, bring it in, get it under control and then build it back up.

Marie Chindamo: It’s like the core. Like I, that analogy, I don’t, I’m not a science.

Person at all. But I do think about health and wellness generally in the same fashion, right? If you’re poor or that support your trunk, your body is weak, right? And if the organs within it are weak, you can’t do much else. So I didn’t tell my and I’m a yoga instructor as well. So I tell my students, the core is the first thing you work on.

And without that stable core, you’re going to struggle with everything else. And it’s the same thing, right? It’s the foundation of a structure,

Laura Longo: everything, even as, as refined as, What am I trying to instill in my children so that when they get to their core and their outer shells, they’re able to manage that,

So it’s, and it’s a lot, if you do it right, you’re exhausted.

Marie Chindamo: That also brings. Me to another analogy, but it’s similar in the same, it talks, it’s about values too, right? If you can define your values and understand them, and sometimes you don’t have to necessarily out really define them. You just know them in your heart, right? I’m sure. And I know your children because well, they understand what they are.

They may not be able to articulate them. They just know them intuitively.

Laura Longo: Yeah.

Marie Chindamo: That helps so much in the decision making process and prioritizing, right? Yes. And everything. And establishing that firm core. It’s okay, these are the values, these are the non negotiables, and until these values are upheld, everything else takes a second back seat.

Back seat, exactly.

Laura Longo: And then, and as they, they are growing older. You asked me how I keep a, a system in my household or things that look clean all the time. They’re part of that system, right? And it’s not just being a strict parent telling them, it’s the why it’s explaining why, you enjoy being in a clean environment or, The other day was like, why do we have to make our beds if if we’re just going to make them again later, and I’m trying to make them understand that’s the first task that you can feel accomplished in your day, and I know for myself, when I start taking off my tasks.

I’m feeling like I’m very productive and accomplished and it like feeds that fire of productivity.

Marie Chindamo: Yeah. And there’s a lot of science behind that about the mental, what gets released in your brain when you check things off a checklist.

Laura Longo: Oh, yeah. I’ve created checklists of things I’ve done already just to check them off.

Marie Chindamo: What I find funny, not funny, but it is funny is that you even told your son, your oldest son, what did you tell him? That. I don’t want you being 35 years old and living in my basement.

Laura Longo: That’s right.

Marie Chindamo: Every single day. Paint that picture, right?

Laura Longo: No, everything is intentional. It’s not just like you’re sitting at the dinner.

I, I pride myself that, when my children are with me, I cook dinner for them. Every night we sit together as a family. We have dinner. We discuss our day. I don’t just I’ve moved from. How was your day? Because I used to get good fine, whatever do we do best part worst part. You just go around the table.

Tell me 1 best part of your day. 1 worst part or generate some type of conversation. But within that dynamic, it’s. Take your elbows off the table, right? Close your mouth when you’re chewing. Don’t speak with food in your mouth. Use a napkin, not your sleeve. And it’s just this loop of directives and my older son would be like, oh, mommy, come on.

I’m like, you’re not living in my basement when you’re 40. You have to be a productive a positive contribute, contributing member to society. And all of that doesn’t happen overnight. It happens with Instilling the why from very young and being intentional in the things that you do.

Marie Chindamo: And it’s awareness, right?

So you’re creating an awareness within them that, I think is needed in the generations that are coming up behind us. And sometimes

Laura Longo: we and I call it out to I tell my kids, because that’s a battle. In and of itself is so and so doesn’t have to be do that or do that, or their mom doesn’t make yeah, but that’s separating you from other people.

You don’t

Laura Longo: need to do what everybody else is doing. You’re going to be successful just because of the fact that you’re being more aware, or you have a situational awareness, or you can read the room. They could pick up a phone. I make them every weekend, pick up the phone, dial a number. And call my mother and have a conversation with her.

Nobody even does that anymore.

Marie Chindamo: They dial it. They don’t push Oh, they dial it. They memorize her phone number.

Laura Longo: I always have it posted. So when they were younger, they would just go and read and dial. And now as they get older, they can remember some and not all of the numbers or whatever.

But yeah, they’ve memorized my phone number because they call me a billion times a day.

Marie Chindamo: Yeah. That’s such an important, that little thing is so important. People back in the day, we had to memorize our closest friends, phone numbers, our parents phone, obviously our household, because that was the only phone we had anybody that was important to us.

We memorize that number as a child and it brings me to a quick story when I was I mountain bike in the woods near here and I mountain biked in the woods 1 day. And this young girl, she was 11. Oh, you told me about this. Yeah. Yeah. And she was by herself and I usually stop when I see anybody.

I just wave or say something. It’s rare that I see anybody. And I saw her and she had this look on her face and I asked if she was okay. And she was saying, she started crying and I was like what, why are you here by yourself? She said, I’m lost. I left separated from my parents and I can’t find them.

And I was like, Oh my God, this poor child. But she knew her mother’s number. Phone and she used my phone to call her mother. And I think about that. It’s just a simple thing that we just don’t allow ourselves as adults, even to do anymore. And I think that’s incredibly important. And the other thing that comes up for me when you’re telling the story is a podcast I was listening to.

And I’ll put it in the show notes and they talk about a part of your brain is called the anterior mid singular cortex that lights up when you do something you don’t want to do. And maybe, this because you’re a science teacher. And what happens is it grows and it gets stronger. So every time you have to do something you don’t want to do.

It actually gets stronger and more robust. So what you, what sounds to me like is happening, and we should do it as adults all the time, is you’re instilling in your children to do something they don’t like for the purpose of something larger, right? I say when you’re

Laura Longo: uncomfortable, you’re growing.

Marie Chindamo: Exactly. Exactly. And that’s how they’re going to separate themselves because those little things are not going to, they’re what big, what are big things now are going to be just little things

Laura Longo: down the road. And there’ll be more inclined to put themselves forward or in an uncomfortable situation to learn, or, be that person to suggest something at the board table, that’s what I want for them.

I want them to, it. Find their own way, but feel confident in what they’re doing,

Marie Chindamo: yeah. Yeah. And have a voice and surround themselves with

Laura Longo: Yep. Which might just be the each other at this point.

Marie Chindamo: Let’s open up, but yes, it’s possible. So we did digress a little bit because we were talking no, and that’s good.

It’s all good stuff. As a female, a strong female. In an environment that’s dominated by very strong men, what are some of the ways you approach, your voice being heard? And, advancing an idea.

Laura Longo: So I feel like my 1st experience in those 4 years of being an administrator really put me in a lot of those uncomfortable situations that we just referred to.

And I learned. Quite quickly about having data to support, and that it doesn’t have to be some explicit, showing charts and stuff, but just having enough knowledge and not just approaching with an idea and a brain dump, but saying, Hey, I’ve looked into this and this is supported by that.

That’s one approach that I usually use. But also, the other one is finding the people that are your cheerleaders right and find and surrounding yourself by people who you’re not afraid if you’re not in the room with them when they’re speaking. And building that trust system with them, those, these.

Maybe colleagues that are more revered, or their opinion is more respected because some people may not know you yet. The challenging part for my position is that. I’m in my eighth year as a director and my third school district. So I don’t have that tenure yet per se in each school district to say, oh yeah, to go to Laura.

She knows what she’s talking about. So that builds over a couple of years. I’m in my third year at this school district, this current school district, and as a much healthier environment, I’m seeing the shift happen right in front of my eyes, where this school district years ago was very similar to the first one that I was.

Bringing up earlier and some of the problems that existed there and little by little as those people were retiring, they’re being replaced with a new era of leadership where it’s more inclusive, more diversity and thought at the table and a little bit more respect when ideas are brought forward. So that, I have a little PTSD from my previous position.

I’m not going to lie. So I’m now starting to be comfortable in my voice and my decision making. And that’s a big part of it, and making sure you seek out the people, like I said, who are your biggest supporters, and pay it forward. Once you feel that you have that position, put it in somebody else.

Marie Chindamo: Yeah, and so 1 of the things the strategies to do that right is, going just a little bit further with, a social interaction, not necessarily have to go out and have dinner or whatever, but it’s it requires time and effort. And I thought building social capital and in a corporate situation, it’s understanding.

The lives, the humanity behind the people that you’re working with, and if their values align with you, if the way they think aligns with you, if their success stories and their future vision of what you want to accomplish aligns, then you bring them closer. And that in and of itself is work. It adds to the job description, right?

Laura Longo: I usually refer to it very similar to what you said as making deposits into the emotional bank accounts of people. And it’s funny because just a little bit takes you such a long way. I’m just, it just made me think of a few weeks ago, I was walking down the hallway of the high school and I was, It wasn’t during passing time so it was passing a teacher.

Not one of the teachers I directly supervised, but somebody who I know. And I asked them, are you okay? Because she just looked like distracted. She was looking down on her phone. And where typically people will be like, sure, I’m fine. She just felt inclined to be like, I don’t know if I’m okay. And I’m like, Oh, okay, tell me more like what, I don’t want to be intrusive, but you just divulge you’re not okay.

So she said her daughter recently is she’s a teenager was diagnosed with epilepsy and they’re having Difficult time like trying to get into a neurologist and she’s having these episodes and it’s just a lot and I what I couldn’t believe at that moment that conversation was happening because one of my elementary teachers who would never cross paths with this high school teacher has dealt with a daughter who has been epileptic since five months old and is now in college.

And I’ve become very close with her and her family, even prior to me having this position. I, her husband wrote a book about their life cause he’s a screenwriter and an actor. And I had just finished reading his book the day before. And now I’m like in the hallway with her and I was like, wait a minute, you need to talk to so and do you know her? And she’s no. I said, when I reach my office, where I’m going to set up an introductory email between the two of you. And at least you can have somebody that’s been through this before to lean on. Immediately. They spoke on the phone. The teacher writes back a day later.

Thank you so much for that interaction. I can’t believe that you just stopped and cared for a moment. I now just got into the top doctor in New York City for neurology. And it’s like that small interaction could change the trajectory of somebody else’s life, right? And that was a positive interaction. So we need to start thinking about how we have, if it was any other way, right?

If I said something wrong, what that trajectory would do in the negative direction for somebody.

Marie Chindamo: Like physics, right

Laura Longo: trajectories, projectiles, and all,

Marie Chindamo: no, but I don’t want to take away from it. I just got the goosebumps when you tell me that story. It’s just a little bit of, I, I don’t necessarily believe that it’s just serendipity.

I think that we put this divine interventions. I have no idea. I don’t know. Attract what we put out there, and your strengths. You know need to serve others right even in the smallest way correct and that’s Exactly why I started this podcast is to create a voice Of people like yourself and myself and like minded individuals that have these nuggets of energy We want to put out there and you’re absolutely right like just being mindful of what you’re doing As you cross paths with another human being

Laura Longo: yeah

Marie Chindamo: Wow.

Laura Longo: a learning curve. I wasn’t always like this as

Marie Chindamo: neither was I. And you have to become very much more intentional about the, how you present yourself to the world. Exactly. And in that case, this woman she was being her genuine self. Otherwise you wouldn’t have picked up on it.

She wasn’t masking her stress and worry with this fake smile. And, that’s important. We are, we’re social animals. Humans are social animals. We’re tribal animals too. We’ve always worked in a tribe for about 10s of thousands of years. And, sometimes what happens is, as the tribe gets bigger and bigger, it doesn’t become, it’s no longer a tribe.

And now you introduce, all the ways of communicating that aren’t face to face that are impersonal. They’re sanitized and we lose those skills.

Laura Longo: Yeah,

Marie Chindamo: And which is incredibly important for us to be intentional about sharing our gifts as well as being intentional about what we want to accomplish in our lives.

Wow. Okay. So what advice would what advice would you give others seeking a higher level of career, a higher level of career in education moving from being a teacher into administration? What are a couple of pieces of advice that you would give them?

Laura Longo: I think that they definitely have to start with exercising.

A diverse perspective, because you have to make sure if you’re a teacher, how do you view the conversations of your colleagues, your peers, your teachers, like, when they present ideas and things like that, do you have that skill set or is it something that you have to work on?

Because you, as a leader, you have to be Poised all the time, but you’re also dealing with a lot of different things. My role is intense. It’s kindergarten through 12th grade and everything that happens in the middle. So I can be doing something on one end of the spectrum and immediately interrupted by something on the other end of the spectrum.

So how is your ability to shift gears? In, can you have all these balls in the air at one time without them falling, so looking first at what your strengths are and building upon those strengths. I think this is the thing for anybody in any career, right? And then you, from there, then you just try to see, you do a needs assessment, but what is needed for this position for me to be successful in this position.

What more education do I have to have? If people come to me and they say, Oh, I have an interview with this particular school district. My advice is always find out everything you can find out, go on to their website, and look at the courses that they offer programs. When I jumped from being a classroom teacher to a district, Administrator that wasn’t an accident.

I put a lot of work into that. It was intentional. It was intentional. Exactly. And one particular thing that stands out not only just looking through their website and seeing. But a program was there that’s, it’s an international program. It’s called Project Lead the Way, and not a lot of school districts offered it.

My school district that I was working as a teacher certainly didn’t. I knew that in order to give myself the edge in that position of being interviewed, I should get trained or learn as much as possible for that program that I would eventually be Oversee, already thinking of myself in the position.

So in other words,

Marie Chindamo: you weren’t in the role yet and you were looking to see you were looking to get trained and I sent myself

Laura Longo: to my own training. So it was unique because other people that were in this training, I flew to St. Louis. In a Nor’easter on a small plane, and I spent 3 days there. getting trained in this program and people were just like, why are you here if you’re not with a school is not sponsoring you?

I paid for it. And it’s no, I have an idea of what’s going to happen. So I presented my resume to the school district. That was something that stood out to them. They’re like, wow, not many people are trained in project lead the way, how did this come about? And they saw, I had a vested interest in wanting to work in that school district.

And this is how. What my work ethic is like. . So you know, that put me. Shoulders above everybody else, right?

Marie Chindamo: Even if it was just the tipping point, right? Of you and another candidate, and I, often tell my clients, it’s if you’re not willing to invest in yourself, how do you expect an employer to invest in you?

If you’re not willing to send yourself to a training program or learn a new skill on your own dime, then why would you want an employer to do it for you? Yeah. It’s really about you being you incorporated.

Laura Longo: And I’m losing nothing. I’m gaining knowledge. I’m gaining knowledge of a program, another skill set.

I met other people whatever you want to look at it as. It grew me in my career. And I moved from the classroom teacher to a district level administrator. So my advice to people who want to make that leap, it doesn’t have to be that big of a leap. If you want to be an assistant principal, you Learn the workings of your building or the district where or have some skill set that you could bring to the table because you weren’t in that position yet.

Say, I really embedded myself into learning how we deal with evacuation drills at the school or, what do we deal? How do we deal with coping? Skills for students when a tragedy happens in a district, you’re bringing something and not waiting for them to say, do you know something about this or right?

So you bring it and try to gear some of that conversation where appropriate to what your skill set is. So that you’re highlighting what your strengths are. And I always say even in an interview, you should have some questions to ask too. You’re interviewing, right? That’s your, you’re spending a good chunk of your life in a, in an establishment.

You should be interviewing them as well.

Marie Chindamo: Oh, absolutely. Oh, no doubt. I tell my clients that all the time, like making a career change is a change to your life and a commitment from you, right? So you need to know what you’re getting yourself into. And it’s just dating, right? You go out on a few dates and everybody’s at their best behavior.

And then once you get literally put in the layers and you’re like, what did I sign up for?

Yeah.

Marie Chindamo: And. So I think back to this, to the shifts that you’ve made, which some people would say you stayed here for a couple of years and you moved over there for a year and a half. And then you’re over here.

I think there’s a lot of benefit to that in some regards, right?

Laura Longo: There is, but I will tell you all of those moves were very intentional. As well. Yeah, I know. So I left. I

Marie Chindamo: know you, but I’m right. Tell us.

Laura Longo: Yes. I, if you’re keen to education when you’re in four years, that’s your tenure year. That’s where you’re going to be like, okay I’m good.

I’m settled. I’ve done my time. And now I feel, confident in the secure position in my fourth year at that first district, the writing was on the wall about this is not their values are not aligned with what. I want to represent myself as and what I want education to be deemed as so I started seeking out other positions.

As the higher you are in a level, the less job opportunities are out there. So I started really looking at what was there.

I had

Laura Longo: an opportunity to move to the opposite end of the spectrum. I went from a school district that had thousands and thousands of students to 1200 students K through 12.

Their school district was one square mile. So it was a whole other thing. But in that position, I was the STEM director, not the science director. So I covered K 12 science, math, Business and technology. So again, I gave myself the opportunity to learn more because I know eventually I want to move up in my career as maybe an assistant superintendent of curriculum.

So if I learn more curricula, then I’ll have more. I’ll have more in my resume to talk about and I have more firsthand experience to to live by. So I moved out. It was quite a distance to that position. I did it for about just under 2 years when the school district I’m in posted. I was hesitant at first.

It is closer to home, but it’s right next to the district that I came from originally. And I wasn’t sure if there was like going to be a shift in ideologies, if they were just too close to each other. So I did a lot of research. I called people that, had worked here for a long time in leadership positions.

I looked through their course offerings and I gathered all of my data and made an informed decision to Go through, the interview process, and I’m telling you is probably the best thing I’ve ever done. All of those things that I went to brought me to right here. And this is like the healthiest leadership position I’ve had.

The school district is incredible with the opportunities that we offer students. My voice is heard and respected. I have a great relationship with my teachers. All of that together, I could see myself retiring here if I don’t move, upward.

Marie Chindamo: And that’s an important, a couple of important points that you made, right?

It’s understanding and doing your homework, whether it converts into the same thing in the corporate world, especially the higher ups. If you’re considering a position, reach out to some of those leaders there, get to know them, get to know what they have to say. And look, we have now glass door and some of these other places that we can look as a corporation, but some of them are sanitized too, HR people go in there and clean up some of the comments, but to do your homework, cause that’s part of being intentional.

It’s part of saying, does this. Fit for me. Is this working for me? I’m not just going to sit back, get tenure and work in a company that doesn’t align with my values is not, giving me advancement or learning or stimulation. And some people are okay with that. And then

Laura Longo: they complain

Marie Chindamo: that they’re not happy.

That’s

Laura Longo: one of my biggest pet peeves is when people complain. I even tried to build that relationship with my, teachers I oversee now. I welcome the opportunity to have a dialogue with you about something that’s bothering you, but at least come with 1 possible solution and we can build from there.

Otherwise, you’re just complaining. And,

Marie Chindamo: The complaining, sometimes it’s just a mask for fear, right? And then they don’t want to change. They don’t feel that they have the skill sets to change taking on something new in a new district, new people starting over. Yeah. There’s a lot there.

What fuels that, the ability to do that is a high degree in self confidence. Knowing your worth.

That’s what it is. Not

Marie Chindamo: ego. Ego is separate, right? It’s having that belief in yourself that I can overcome any challenge.

Laura Longo: Yeah. That’s true. That took a long time to, to establish. That’s not something that’s established overnight, you look at, putting yourself in different scenarios and some things that, that I think are second nature to me, I have to step outside myself and be like, Laura, you’re getting a PhD in under three years.

Do you know what that means? Cause otherwise I’m just in the, you could do it. You could do it. You could do it. But before I got to that, you could do it part. I had to look. And see what, if I put myself in this and put myself out there, could I make it through? And then every time you have a success, and success doesn’t mean, like you could fail and succeed, if that makes sense, right?

You, things didn’t go the way you wanted, whatever it was, whatever scenario, insert scenario, but you learned something from it that gave you tools to address that. The next thing, right? So that’s one component of it. And then looking at people who may have had a similar background of you and in seeing they, they could do it.

I often, the cat’s out of the bag. You’re my sister, right? So I look at the things that you do. And I think of when I think of you, the phrase that comes to mind is if somebody else can do it, I could do it too. Like I don’t need so, so what somebody did that I could do that, to a degree, I’m not going to be slam dunking on the NBA, I get that, but if I need to learn how to, change. An outlet at my house. I could figure it out where I can do something, but I didn’t that you were a role model to that, oh, thanks. Sure. It’s 2 fold is looking at people that, that you can see. Yourselves in right and say we have a similar background and she did it so I can do it and then also putting yourself in uncomfortable situations or working through.

The yuck, right? And getting that confidence and that strength of saying, I could do whatever.

Marie Chindamo: Yeah. Yeah. And look, you could make a hundred excuses as to why you wouldn’t change a job, right? Raising the kids, the demand, in fact, the school district you were originally in was a tiny bit closer to your home.

Tiny bit, right? A little bit. Yeah. A little bit. You had so many things going on. Like you could easily say, you know what? I can’t make this change right now. I’m just going to suck it up. I have

Laura Longo: friends that stayed for those very reasons. They lived in the district. Their children are in the district.

It’s easier for them to navigate their home life with their career life and women in the same positions that I was in. So feeling like that slam of disgust all the time, but then saying, no, I’m not going to move. No, I’m not going to move.

And

Laura Longo: I just don’t, there’s more to that. I even tell my teachers when we’re doing a professional development or even a department meeting.

It’s really important for us to have a great relationship with each other and between me and them because you spend eight hours, one third of your day in your job. So why would you want to give up one third of anything and be miserable about it or be upset about it?

Marie Chindamo: Yeah, I, there, when it comes to making that change, goes to Some people have listen, they have to set their priorities if they can’t handle a shift like that and keep their household firm. And then that’s their personal choice. And I’m not putting them down for that. But that’s them. We’ve have a different DNA where you want to put your ladder up against the right wall.

And I’ve learned this many times. I put my ladder up against a wall. I got to the top and I’m like, what is going on? Why am I here?

Yeah.

Marie Chindamo: And maybe there was a reason at the time and there was in my situation. There was specific reason a means to an end. But. And in their case it’s a means to an end.

My children have to, whatever, get to grade, get to middle school before I want to make a change. They have to be a little more independent or whatever the case may be. That’s their story, right? Just be mindful of that. What is it that’s driving you to keep yourself in this situation? Correct. And what is it costing you, right?

And if you choose to move out of this situation, what is your plan? Even if it’s not today, it could be next year or three years from now. And you’re like me, we just you know what? I’m not going to be part of this because I’m giving up too much.

Yeah.

And that’s important because success has to be, should be intentional, or you’re going to end up sitting back and going, I’m at the top of this ladder and I’m just how did I get here?

And I reinvent myself now.

Laura Longo: Yeah. And sometimes it’s. It’s a curse that when you have it so much because I’m already thinking what’s next before whatever I’m in is finished. So I’m thinking, okay, my biggest time consumer outside of work and my children is writing this dissertation and getting ready to defend it.

That’s an April to me. April’s around the corner. So what do I have in line to start in May? What’s my next thing?

Marie Chindamo: That’s a good question. So I was going to ask that question. What do you see your next move is right with this PhD? Is there something specific with the degree? Is there something that you want to see enter into the world of education?

Tell me, tell us what? Yeah,

Laura Longo: I think that There’s so many things reasons why I’m doing the work I’m doing in my Ph. D. Specifically, I’m focusing in on elementary science, which a lot of people who know me are like, what, you have a degree in physics. Why wouldn’t you do something in the secondary level?

But as a director, I’m seeing that there’s a huge need for support for elementary teachers and science. They’re not that’s not their specialty. That’s not where they feel the most comfortable. Generally speaking, you have a few outliers, but I think I could use this certificate, this next PhD, this level of education to help maybe drive some New York state decisions, help.

Promote that, we need more support for teacher preparation programs and what they’re exposed to what these pre service teachers are exposed to before they get into the classroom and all these expectations are put on them, that could even mean working in a university. As a professor and adjunct, most likely and helping teachers in their science methods courses to be exposed to what they really are going to be exposed to instead of this glossed over general setting of science, because then the crap hits the fan when they get into the classroom.

So I, I can also utilize it as a stepping stone if I want to entertain becoming an assistant superintendent of curriculum. Now, most people in the in central office, right? The assistant superintendents and superintendent. They are. having their letters behind their names, so they are doctors in some degree.

A lot of them are EDDs, educational doctorates. I’m, will be a PhD. That even puts me ahead of everybody else. That was intentional also. Did I want to have an EDD? That would have been a quicker route for me because I could have rolled in a lot of my educational leadership credits that I had taken to get that certification into an EDD program.

And given me a head start in that program, or did I want to go and get the Ph. D. and everybody, a lot of people have an Edd. So I said I want a Ph. D. then, and there it is. I’m setting that intent, intentional thing on my resume. To say this will open up all these different doors.

I know that when I’m eligible to retire and in the education, the public education system of New York, my youngest child will still have, I think, one more year of high school. So I will retire because when you retire, when you’re first eligible, there’s more benefits that exist for the rest of your life,

but

Laura Longo: I don’t want to stop working.

So those credentials will help me. Be a consultant, maybe, work, like I said, as an adjunct somewhere or start my own business, whatever it is. I’m not sure what it is yet, but it’s something.

Marie Chindamo: Change the world, change the way people live in the world. So just be an inspire, inspiration to others and, and there’s a lot of opportunity there.

Laura Longo: Yeah. Yeah. One thing that I want. To leave this conversation, not that we have to end it right now, but with people knowing a lot of this, like we said, we keep going back to having intent, right? Having intent, developing a process, seeing your goal. What are the steps I have to do to get there?

And I find more often than not, people get, feel defeated because that’s that’s a seven year process or that’s a 10 year process, right? Those years are going to pass anyway. Start moving in the forward direction of reaching that goal, and you might continue that goal, or it might take you to a crossroads where you’re like I think I want to go in this direction with it.

But if you stay where you are you’re going to know that story. You’re going to live that story. You’re going to die with that story.

Marie Chindamo: Yeah, and you don’t know, you don’t know to write a continual learning. Is, keeps you healthy, keeps you vibrant, and it doesn’t mean you have to continually learn in the subject area you’re in today either.

You could, set yourself up to learn other things. Other things, yeah. Compliments.

Definitely.

Marie Chindamo: It’s So before we end we can find you on LinkedIn, yes? I’m on LinkedIn.

Laura Longo: I’m on Instagram, but I don’t really do a lot of that social media stuff. I really just, who has the time, who has the time, right?

You can find me on LinkedIn. You can find me at my school district. It is, I am a public New York state employee, so that’s no secret. I work at Comac. Union free school district, our web page is pretty robust. So you can find me there. I don’t know. You’ll find me at my sister’s house.

Marie Chindamo: Yes, you can reach out to me and I can put you in touch with Laura directly if you need some inspiration.

Couple of final questions, thinking back, and maybe you can insert some humor into these answers, if there’s one situation in the past that you think about where you made a choice and that outcome didn’t come the way you wanted it to be, or didn’t turn out the way you wanted it to be, and what did you learn from it?

Laura Longo: You talking about marriage 1 or marriage 2?

Marie Chindamo: Oh, geez. Okay. You could go there. What a humor.

Laura Longo: No.

Marie Chindamo: There you go. That could be it. Sure. Yeah. Listen, relationships are just as difficult as jobs, if not worse.

Laura Longo: They are. No, but all kidding aside. Let’s see, think about a situation. I. I really go all in on, on things.

So when I’m like, I’m going to be an engineer, I threw myself into I’m going to be an engineer. And then it’s, I felt like this thing, this, I can’t explain it, but it’s this like gut feeling sometimes when you’re just like, I, this doesn’t feel right, could I do it and be successful? Yeah, but it doesn’t feel right.

So I felt like myself too. Stumbling when I was in engineering school because I knew like my insides didn’t align to what was happening on the outside. And I would have never imagined myself being in education and in, public school education like this as a matter of fact, when I have that conversation with my mentor, my physics mentor at the time, and he said, become a physics teacher.

I was. thinking he was implying me getting my Ph. D. in physics and becoming a physics professor at a university. Okay.

Okay. And he

Laura Longo: said, absolutely not. I’ve done that for my entire life. We need high school physics teachers. And that little conversation and that little direction just set me off on this career path that at times I was frustrated and I wanted to leave.

At one point, I even went into the military to try to get out, every time I was fighting what I was naturally inclined to do, something set me back into this path. And saying, just look at it in a different lens, maybe you’re tired of the monotony. I was teaching physics, six periods a day, every day for 17 years.

It’s, there’s nothing different. I could tell you what I’m doing on October 16th every year. Yeah. How do I change that? I couldn’t, I would write curriculum, but they wouldn’t let me teach it because there was a shortage of physics teachers. So in order for me to make my mark, I had to look at how could I stay in education and still, have a difference.

So that’s what led me into part of what led me into this. Educational leadership. So I think that I forgot what your original question was, but I was rambling, but it was

Marie Chindamo: how did intentional and intentional choice didn’t work out, didn’t work out. And

Laura Longo: then how did how you overcame that or where it led you to.

Marie Chindamo: You talked about relationship too. That’s, we don’t have crystal balls, right? We just don’t have crystal balls.

Laura Longo: No. And like you mentioned before you’re on a. You’re on this dating path and no one’s putting their true selves out there a long time, and then you don’t really know someone until you live with them.

Marie Chindamo: The other thing that is just as important is that you recognize, whether it’s in a relationship, it’s a job, which is a relationship in and of itself the career trajectory, that you’re recognizing that this is not working for me. Yep, and I’m trying to find solutions. I’ve tried the solutions. I still feel very strongly that I’m living below my level of enjoyment and fulfillment,

Laura Longo: right?

Marie Chindamo: That’s capable that I’m capable of, right? And therefore I need to change it.

Laura Longo: Yeah and then everybody like defining what they are capable of and what, what ignites them. That’s right different for everybody, so if you can define those things, then you can set yourself into the path of where you want to try to have something different happen.

Marie Chindamo: Not stand behind fear. No, the unknown and yeah. So thank you. Thank you for all that great advice. I was going to ask you, what would you tell your younger self? What would be something you would tell the Laura that was, 15 years ago, right? The person that was just entering maybe even more further back.

Laura Longo: Way back.

Marie Chindamo: Yeah. Yeah.

Laura Longo: It’s going to be fine. That’s what I would tell them.

Marie Chindamo: Yeah.

Laura Longo: It’s going to be fine. But, and I try to, I see a lot of similarities in my daughter. She’s my middle child and she puts a lot on herself. Is she doing well in school? She’s only 10, 11. Is she doing well in school?

Is she, being the best athlete on the field? Is she, making me happy? Not a disappointment, at home. And it’s, the difference in, in parenting now, or the tools that I have that maybe my parents didn’t, is that I’m recognizing that Pressure that she puts on herself, and I could pull her aside and say, you’re doing great.

Yes, it’s you’re gonna be fine. You’re doing great. And you’re never going to be a disappointment. And a lot of that edginess that I had as a child is because it was getting me ready for the role I am as an adult. So, where some people might have difficult time with their stubborn child, read into that stubbornness.

Is it because they’re trying to be a future engineer and figure out things on their own, or they’re trying to, they feel that bit of confidence that they want to try something and we’re constantly stepping in before They have the opportunity to try it, so some of those kids, even students, I deal with that.

You might see as being frictional. Maybe it’s not frictional. Maybe it’s because they’re intended to do something great and they just don’t know what that

Marie Chindamo: Yeah, that’s a good point, right? It’s, um, looking at the. The child, like how you grew up, right?

And we can get into another episode about that, right? What you’ve experienced growing up and what I’ve experienced growing up, very similar in a lot of respects and very different and a lot of others. And we’ll get to that given the difference in our ages and what was going on in our lives.

What I think about when I tell adults this, and I’m sure you tell your children this too, is let’s just don’t measure yourself to external factors. They’re great to be an inspiration to you. You just don’t know what’s going on. Measure yourself to the person you were last week, last year, right?

Yeah. That’s your definition of, am I, it’s called the gap versus the gain. Dan Sullivan and Ben Hardy wrote a book called Gap and Gain and it’s about looking at, okay, the horizon is always going to be there and you’ll never get to the horizon. It’s just, it’s impossible. You’re just going to continue walking towards it and it’s just going to continue to move.

But if you look at all the things you’ve accomplished and you go, okay these are the gains that I’ve made and it’s pushing me in the right direction. And this is why I want to continue to stay motivated. And lose that level of frustration, at least some degree, some of it is good. Some of it is good to say, Hey, I’m a little frustrated with my progress.

Let me do more, do different, but not to let it consume you to a point where you feel defeated or stunted impacts your mental health in any way. It’s basically, Hey, I just want to continue to be better and do different and learn from the mistakes because we’re going to make them. And sometimes they’re not necessarily mistakes.

They’re just. Things that happen and something we got

Laura Longo: to work through, you got to go through it to get to the other side. This is just, yeah, so that’s what I would tell my younger self. Just keep doing what you’re doing. Don’t be so hard on yourself. Don’t, don’t feel like everybody you’re under a microscope for everybody.

They got their own things going on,

Marie Chindamo: Yeah, you want you. That’s absolutely right. Yeah. Thank you very much. Busy day. So we’ll let you go. All right. I will look forward to episode two with Laura Longo when we can schedule it. And maybe we’ll have a glass of wine in our hand when we do it.

That’ll be fun.

Laura Longo: All right. Thank you guys. Take care. Have a good day. Bye. Bye.

Marie Chindamo: Thank you so much for listening. I aim to provide you motivation and support to consciously craft the life and career you desire. Check out the show notes to be sure you’ve captured all the golden nuggets. Visit ProTilly. com to set up a complimentary call with me or get free resources and very inexpensive help from our success university.

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